Ellie listens, frowning, trying to figure out where he's going with this.

"Right. Because the people who made you do those things weren't good people."

She wouldn't say killing in of itself is bad because she's been in so many situations where she's had to kill or be killed.

"You weren't given a choice." Neither was she, one way or another. No one ever asked her if she'd be willing to die for a cure. Marlene assumed yes. Joel, no. Everyone made the choice for her.